ABS Warping/Separating from Build Plate In Middle of Print

Issue:
Printing a 20+ hour part on a glass bed (115C), (250C Extruder head). Print looks good and was attached to the bed well into layer 30 or so when I left for the evening. This morning you could see that it warped, but it must have been warping/separating during the print. The part finished flat on top so it didn’t warp after the print was complete.
I’ve tried higher nozzle temp (270C), adding fan after layer 7 (which is the same setting on another printer - see below) and building an enclosure around the front and top to keep the heat inside.
I’m wondering if the glue stick would be better, but am afraid of breaking the glass. Anyone else have this trouble? Appreciate any feedback…
Thanks!

Quick Background:
I’m relatively new to 3D printing. I purchased a Fusion3 F410 about a year ago and have it running pretty good. We’ve had some issues with it, but it seems to do what we need. I probably would have bought another one, but did some cost comparisons and felt the duplication capacity of the Stacker S4 was a better long term solution. I use Simplify3D slicing software to produce g-codes for both printers. We are using glass beds at different temp’s (F410 runs at 100C, S4 runs at 115C).
Extruders temp’s are (F410 runs at 270C, S4 runs at 250C). After breaking a lot of glass using purple glue sticks, tried Magigoo but it cost more. Used Aqua Net hairspray and it seems to work as well as the Magigoo at a fraction of the cost!

Hi Drew, welcome to the forum. Can you give us a little more info on the print? It looks like you’ve got a lot of supports at the bottom. You might actually be better off with a raft so those supports have something to stick to.

The only way I’ve been able to reduce warping with ABS is an enclosure. I suspect part of the effect comes from the slower cooling when the printer is done. I’ve gotten away with a big garbage bag.

Please, do not leave your printer unattended, especially if it is fairly new to you.

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you can’t also add a large brim.
i normally use a 10-15mm brim with abs

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Thanks for the reply Stefan. I monitor the printer remotely and have the ability to stop the print if something happens. I completely understand not leaving it alone but have become more comfortable with this printer over the past couple months. I’ve considered the raft, but wasn’t sure how easy it would be to break it off and how it would impact surface quality of the bottom of the print. I may just try it though. I built an enclosure to cover this printer just for this print. I was convinced it would solve the issue. I don’t have this issue with the F410 and I’ve tried duplicating all of the settings (the last being adding the enclosure). Thanks again for the reply!

Thanks for the reply moorviper!
I think I will try making the brim bigger.
Appreciate it!

First not all ABS are created equal. then heat helps and so does gluestick. There are some ABS like MH Build ABS I have never got any big prints out of and then I had good results with Hobby King and ESUN. We have mostly switched from ABS to HIPS though which we call the better ABS (Less warp, less smell, better bed adhesion better layer adhesion more durability) But both can benefit from extra heat inside the “Build chamber”
Here is my Chiron with “Build Chamber”

Cant see much its a piece of House wrap - heavy plastic draped an taped over it and the print dry next to it the print dry throws out 80C air the temp under the sheet depending on where you measure is between 45 and 49C Currently printing a part for the robot with dimensions of 390x382x 370 that will take about a kg of HIPS. point is we get that stuff to stay put most of the time on the Chirons glass based Super-whatever bed we also got it to stick on the Pulses Garolite bed with copious amounts of gluestick even though smaller pieces as the build volume on this is 250x220x210ish. I printed a 205mm cylindrical object 185mm tall (for a 404:1 Compound planetary) out of ESUN gold ABS (Hobby king had a sale and we bought their last 4kg at $5/kg) We print different though from most. .8 nozzle volumetrically tuned a throttled and what we called printed solid (enough perimeters to get a solid piece of plastic) which tends to warp easier than a mostly hollow piece. WITH ABS/HIPS/NYLON/PETG - NO FAN. Fan makes warp and lowers layer adhesion in some cases even can cause splits. You want the whole thing to cool as slowly and evenly as possible. Glue and brim always help and if its a model for just looking at make the inside as empty as possible

P.S. We will build a real enclosure once we have time. Right now we got invited to the ERRF to make a showcase for 3DP in high schools and want to get bumblebot as far along as possible before that and to finish it there needs to be 13kg of Nylon amd hips designed and turned into parts (if there are no fails) Right now we are running about 1kg/day through the chiron

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Thanks for the feedback mpirringer! I can agree that not all ABS is the same. However, we are printing the same ABS in a Fusion3 F410 (it’s enclosed). We are still tweaking the processes on both printers. The Fusion is running pretty good and we just ordered another one. We do get some lifting on the perimeter. It is enclosed and we do run a fan at 15% after layer 7. That was just the default setting on the fff profile. We didn’t have the trouble originally, and we were using the purple glue sticks. We would get broken glass from time to time. We switched to Magigoo and didn’t have anymore glass breaking. Although, I think we started to see some part separation from the bed with the Magigoo.

Have you had any issues with glass breaking? We were originally told to use 3-4 layers of glue. I think at one point I started opening the enclosure as soon as the print was done to help it cool faster. I’m pretty sure that caused some breaking as well. I don’t do that anymore! So many variables to work with. I’m sure we’ll get it down though.

Looks like you folks are working on some pretty cool stuff! I’ll be checking some of your other post.
Good luck on your ERRF invite. It won’t be long before more and more schools have an Advanced Manufacturing program that includes 3D printing.

As far as your rigged up cover, I’m in the same boat. We started with some plastic hanging from ceiling to floor to keep out draft and keep the odor in. We’ve since added a vent to atmosphere and here’s my attempt to enclose the printer. I am working on a real enclosure that will have a smaller dc fan to vent to atmosphere or through a HEPA filter like the Fusion has.

Do you have a calculation to determine how much brim you use based on part height etc…?

In general no.
when the room is colder in winter and was unheated i use a larger brim.
when it is warm and the part allows it i print without.
On parts like the extruder body / especially the cable wire channel i use a large brim otherwise it will warp.

this was my heightest ABS print so far ;D

0,4mm layer height
I was an idiot and vapor smoothed the head and looked if it still fit too early XD

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I usually use 10mm brim if it fits on the build plate but then I print with a .8 nozzle and 1.2mm layer width on the 1st layer and .6 layerheight then I go to somewher between .2 and .4 on the layer height .9 and 1 on outside perimeters 1.2 to 1.5 on inside perimeters and infill. Here is last nights hips print it is a bearing holder for a rack and pinion setup (2 double racks) a 8hour print using 490g of HIPS


This one was a flat piece. Now the brim is not really a function of height but a function of how much the piece wants to separate from the build plate. and usually pieces with a larger dimension in one direction or more tend to pull up easier as there is more material that likes to bend

Do not open the enclosure early to make it cool down faster you can make it warp right at the end doing that a little patience goes quite some way in this.

Your enclosure is something I had on my Pulse dont have enough cardboard for the Chiron its big with a 400x400x450 build volume. The only thing I sometimes added is a drop light with an incadescent 100w bulb to heat it up a bit more or now I just include the print dry (food dehydrator) into the “enclosure” to up the temp some more. Right now there is no room for error if we want to get done on time better safe than sorry.

As for cool stuff well i’d post a picture of the double rack that goes with the above or some of the gearboxes we are working on etc but there is a 1 pic per post limit. You can check some of our early stuff on my youtube channel

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Good info on the brim. Groot looks pretty cool. Were you trying to smooth the whole body too?

Ah the groot XD
no i cant i stick it to early together so it bonded together
i don’t want to kill it :wink:
maybe someday i print another / the ABS was pretty cheap $4/KG.
I should have ordered more of it …

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Who sells ABS for $4 - I go get some

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It was a time ago on Hobbyking.
the last time they had such a sale i missed it :-/
I only bought 5 spools because i didn’t know how good the filament is, but it is great.

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Oh I look there 2x a week last time I cleaned them out of ESUN ABS gold at $ 5/kg. Same with HIPS and sometimes they got a sale on PETG. Filament is good there except maybe the real cheap Nylon that is rough printing but the CX12 Nylon they sell is nice.